St. Paul's Discussion Forum

Current Book

2009-08-07T14:56:00.002-06:00

Our current choice is "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn. We have discussed it at two sessions so far, and we have at least 1 or 2 more left. We will need to be laying out a plan for the coming year, so book suggestions are welcome. Also, we should re-consider the meeting time/place/structure and make sure everyone is satisfied with it.

We should probably plan on having a book schedule to put in the saddlebag soon - and then in the early fall (maybe Sunday after labor day) have someone make an announcement at both services welcoming new members to the book club.

We are planning to meet this week, August 9th at 6:30.

Here are some of my favorite quotes from my Buddhism quote emails in the last few weeks:

When you see a truck bearing down on you, by all means jump out of the way. But spend some time in meditation, too. Learning to deal with discomfort is the only way you'll be ready to handle the truck you didn't see.

- Bhante Henepola Gunaratana, "Mindfulness in Plain English"

So much fear and desire come from that commitment to 'I am'--to being somebody. Eventually they take us to anxiety and despair; life seems much more difficult and painful than it really is. But when we just observe life for what it is, then it's all right: the delights, the beauty, the pleasures are just that.

- Ajahn Sumedho, "Seeing the Way"

New Book and Today's Sunday School

2009-03-22T15:31:00.002-06:00

Book Club
Last week we kicked off the discussion of "When Jesus Came to Harvard: Making Moral Choices Today", which so far has been a very engaging, well-written book. Today we plan to get as far as we can through Section 1 (chapters 4-10), and we will be meeting again next week. We will need to determine the schedule we plan on keeping for April, as 4/12 is Easter, and they are moving "Second Sunday" to the third Sunday of the month. Stay tuned for updates.

The following is an excerpt from the book, from the chapter entitled "Exiles from Eden":

"A careful reading suggest that their fatal mistake was their refusal to be content with being human, and therefore mortal. Mere paradise, crammed with all that fresh air and ripe fruit, even having each other as loving partners, was not good enough for them. They wanted to shake loose from aging, death, and the other inconvenient liabilities of earthliness. They longed for unlimited possibilities. They craved, as the serpent so succinctly whispered, "to be like God".

Sunday School
Today we covered a Faithlink that described the current state of the U.S. occupation of Afghanistan, and how our Christian faith and Biblical tradition can shed light on that situation. At least, that's what I think they discussed... I was a substitute assistant in the 1st-3rd classroom, which really, if you are going to substitute anywhere, those are the angels you want to help.

While I often find the Bible excepts chosen for beliefnet's Daily Bible reading to be quite odd (why pick that, why stop at that verse when the next few help clarify what seems kind of extreme in the passage they picked, etc.), today's I found particularly troubling in light of the theme of the Faithlink, and I would've been interested to see people's take on it:

Galatians 4:21-5:1

The Allegory of Hagar and Sarah

(Gen 21.8—21; Isa 54.1)

The Allegory of Hagar and Sarah
(Gen 21.8—21; Isa 54.1)
Tell me, you who desire to be subject to the law, will you not listen to the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and the other by a free woman. One, the child of the slave, was born according to the flesh; the other, the child of the free woman, was born through the promise. Now this is an allegory: these women are two covenants. One woman, in fact, is Hagar, from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabiag and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the other woman corresponds to the Jerusalem above; she is free, and she is our mother. For it is written,
“Rejoice, you childless one, you who bear no children,
burst into song and shout, you who endure no birth pangs;
for the children of the desolate woman are more numerous
than the children of the one who is married.”

Now you, my friends, are children of the promise, like Isaac. But just as at that time the child who was born according to the flesh persecuted the child who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. But what does the scripture say? “Drive out the slave and her child; for the child of the slave will not share the inheritance with the child of the free woman.” So then, friends, we are children, not of the slave but of the free woman. For freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm, therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

Buddhist Quote of the Day

2009-02-10T20:39:00.001-07:00

Suffering chastens us and makes us remember. We are like the child who tries to pick up fire and is unlikely to do it again, once she has seen the consequences. With material things, seeing is easy; but when it comes to picking up the fires of greed, aversion, and delusion, most of us aren’t even aware we’re holding fires at all. On the contrary, we misguidedly believe them to be lovable and desirable, and so we are never chastened. We never learn our lesson.

-Buddhadhasa Bhikku, "Heartwood of the Bodhi Tree"

We are scheduled to meet this Sunday (2/15) at 6:30p.m. for more discussion of Living Buddha, Living Christ.

Enjoying "Living Buddha, Living Christ"

2009-02-02T21:23:00.002-07:00

The group met again this last Sunday, and we delved a little further into our current selection. Most have reached around p. 60-80 or so. We probably have another two weeks left for discussion, depending on interest. Next week we will be taking another break for the Second Sunday performance, so we'll pick up again on the 15th of February.

Yesterday we enjoyed a chicken gumbo soup brought by Betty, and potato soup, pineapple/black bean salad, and chocolate bars brought by Virginia. I managed to bake some bread yesterday for the first time in about 3 months, and it turned out o.k.

I ate the leftovers of the pineapple/black bean salad for lunch today, and I will say that I really want to get that recipe. It's a refreshing lunch. Maybe we can post it here?

Warming Up for January 18th - Start of Living Buddha, Living Christ

2009-01-10T11:24:00.002-07:00

We will begin our next book, "Living Buddha, Living Christ" by Thich Nhat Hanh on Sunday, January 18th. With my week of work travel last week, I got a jump start on this book -- and just in time. The meditation/breathing techniques discussed in the 2nd chapter really helped me through some stressful situations.

Here's a quote from Buddhist email this morning. I read it to David and he said, "Wow, that correlates pretty well with Christianity." Anyway, I'll post good quotes as I come across them (from either tradition).

"If you cling to an idea as the inalterable truth, then when the truth does come in person and knock at your door, you will not be able to open the door and accept it."-Udana Sutta

Potential Plans for Book Club

2008-12-29T18:22:00.003-07:00

As I mentioned in the last post, our next meeting will be Sunday, January 4th. I have finally neared the conclusion of the Borg book (I know almost all of you, if not all, are already finished). Given that the chapter on Paul differs little (in my opinion) from what we learned in the "What Paul Meant" book, do we want to move on to the "Living Buddha, Living Christ" book for the 11th? I think it might be nice to regroup and finish off this current book on the 4th and then move on.

If you don't want to post your comment here, you can email me at my yahoo account.

Current Book and Next Up

2008-12-16T21:56:00.002-07:00

We are still reading and discussing "Reading the Bible Again for the First Time". It looks like we will need to take some time off for the holidays -- does January 4th sound like a good re-start up date? We should be heading into the discussion on the New Testament interpretations on that date.

Next up is "Living Buddha, Living Christ" by Thich Nhat Hanh. I read a great quote from him today in my Daily Buddhist wisdom email, so I am very much looking forward to the book:

"I like to walk alone on country paths, rice plants and wild grasses on both sides, putting each foot down on the earth in mindfulness, knowing that I walk on the wondrous earth. In such moments, existence is a miraculous and mysterious reality.

People usually consider walking on water or in thin air a miracle. But I think the real miracle is not to walk either on water or in thin air, but to walk on earth. Every day we are engaged in a miracle which we don't even recognize: a blue sky, white clouds, green leaves, the black, curious eyes of a child--our own two eyes. All is a miracle."

-Thich Nhat Hanh, "Miracle of Mindfulness"

Catching Up: Where We Are at for Book Club

2008-11-30T15:00:00.003-07:00

We have decided to have a meeting this week (today, Sunday 11/30), since we have been out of touch for a little while and our current book has stimulated active discussion.

During our first meeting on "Reading the Bible Again for the First Time" (Marcus Borg), we got through to the end of Chapter 2. One of the most in-depth discussions we had concerned using the description "The Word of God" to describe the Bible, esp. concerning its introduction into our service following the Scripture reading. We even thought about submitting it as one of the challenging questions in the basket. If you read on at the end of Chapter 2, Borg has an interesting answer (which is good, since he is the one that questioned the use of that language earlier in the chapter):

p. 33-34: "What then does it mean to call the Bible "the Word of God"? It is important to emphasize that the Christian tradition throughout its history has spoken of the Bible as the Word of God (captial W and singulat), not as the words of God (lowercase w and plural). If it had used the latter phrase, thenone might reasonably claim that believing the words of the Bible to be God's words is intrinsic to being Christian.

[...]

The traditional theological phrase for this is "the Bible as the revelation of God." In the Bible, as the foundation of the Christian cultural-linguistic world, Christians find the disclosure of God-not because the Bible is the words of God but because the Bible contains the primary stories and traditions that disclose the character and will of God.

[...]

In short, calling the Bible the Word of God refers not to its origin but to its status and function."

PBS Link on Bible origins

2008-11-30T14:57:00.001-07:00

This information was posted on a comment by Pastor Dan, so until I get him set up as an author I will post the information so it is not so hidden:

For those who can't get enough, here is an item of possible interest -- PBS has a series on the origins of the Bible. A summary of one episode, discussing how the Bible came to be a book/sacred text, is at this link:http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bible/written.html

Book Club Schedule and Update

2008-11-08T09:15:00.002-07:00

November 16-?
Reading the Bible Again for the First Time, Marcus Borg
Early reviews from participants is that they are really enjoying this book and feel there will be a lot to discuss.

Last week we finished discussion of "The Life of the Beloved". We enjoyed a fantastic vegetarian feast, with about 60% of the dishes containing chickpeas. Here are a few of my favorite quotes from the book:

"Isn't a meal together the most beautiful expression of our desire to be given to each other in our brokenness? The table, the food, the drinks, the words, the stories: Are they not the most intimate ways in which we not only express the desire to give our lives to each other, but also to do this in actuality?"

"Imagine yourself as being deeply convinced that your love for [your spouse], your kindness to your friends, and your generosity to the poor are little mustard seeds that will become strong trees in which many birds can build their nests!"

"The world is evil only when you become its slave."

Anyone else have a favorite quote?

Sunday School: Nov 2 & Nov 9 Topic: Letter from 2012 in Obama's America

2008-11-03T22:52:00.003-07:00

The topic for the November 2 and November 9 sunday school classes centers around a fictitious letter written by Dr. James Jobson in June 2008.

The original letter can be read here. Keep in mind this is a sort of warning of what could potentially occur.

We are discussing this in light of contemporary Christianity and its role in media, as well as looking at how the secular world views Christians, esp. through the voices of their leaders. Here are some responses to this article:

Response from Jim Wallis

Washington Post blog

There are several handouts printed out from the web that we distributed last week. We will be discussing this topic more on the 9th. It would be helpful if people found relevant Bible passages supporting or disproving the "facts" or "attitudes" or "tone" of the original letter.

Last week's Bible passage from the service may be relevant, depending on your view point:

Matthew 23:1-15

Sonia Nazario speaking at ISU in Pocatello Next Tuesday

2008-10-23T19:26:00.003-06:00

Ray brought this upcoming event at ISU to my attention today. We read this book last spring as part of our book club. If anyone is interested in going, I'd be willing to drive down.

Author Sonia Nazario Keynote and Book Signing
Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, Sonia Nazario, recounts an unforgettable odyssey about a Honduran boy who braves unimaginable hardship and peril to reach his mother in the United States. Keynote followed by reception and book signing. Tuesday, October 28, 2008, 7:00 PM – 9:00 PM. Student Union Ballroom. For more info visit www.isu.edu.

Also, if anyone who reads the blog would like to learn how to post, just make the request and I will show you how.

Does God Take Sides in the election?

2008-10-23T07:57:00.006-06:00

Many of you may have seen this video already on a news show. If not, it's about 2 minutes long and it gets strange about one minute in. I looked up this pastor to see what church he is a part of, and he is a former pastor of Grave Evangelical Free Church.

Daily Christian Wisdom

2008-10-22T07:42:00.000-06:00

From Beliefnet:

God will not hold us responsible to understand the mysteries of election, predestination, and the divine sovereignty. The best and safest way to deal with these truths is to raise our eyes to God and in deepest reverence say, "O Lord, Thou knowest." Those things belong to the deep and mysterious Profound of God's omniscience. Prying into them may make theologians, but it will never make saints.

-A.W. Tozer, The Pursuit of God

Book Club: "Life of the Beloved" - Week 1

2008-10-19T21:33:00.003-06:00

I think this might be the kind of book that depending on when you read it, you will have a very (perhaps extremely) different opinion of it. It has been about 2 months since I picked it up, so I'm probably not in the best position to comment on it too deeply right now.

We will be discussing this book for one more week only, and then moving on to the next in our series. To review the schedule, then, we currently are looking at the following dates:

10/26: Life of the Beloved

11/2, 11/16: Reading the Bible Again for the First Time by Marcus J. Borg
(We almost always spend at least 2 weeks per book. Depending on how the discussion goes, we may be doing this book 11/23, as well. I will keep the schedule information updated as it evolves.)

Thank you to all who came tonight, and a special thanks for all the delicious food. We had enough food to feed about 25 people. To all those who have considered coming but do not want to have to bring anything, not to worry - there's never been a shortage.

Reflections on Luke 12

2008-10-17T17:25:00.002-06:00

I received this message this morning from David's mom, whom some of you have met. Hopefully she won't mind me posting it here:

This morning Monsignor's homily struck me deeply. Do you know how Jesus says
" Fear him who has the power to cast into hell" and then immediately
goes on to say how tenderly the Father loves us... I always thought it
was God who has the power to thrust into hell, God we needed to fear...
today as Monsignor explained I finally understood- it is NOT God we
need to fear- He is the one who loves us more than the sparrows, who
counts each hair on our head, who sacrificed Jesus to save us... it is
ourselves we need to fear- are tendency to forget God, rely upon
ourselves, tell ourselves we do not need to confess our sins or rely on
His grace- it is we who ignore Him and spurn His gift of a relationship
with us - it is we who are too busy for God, too self reliant for God-
it is ourselves we need to fear- we need to fear our own capacity to
ignore God and turn our back on His love.

Sunday School: The topic for this coming week

2008-10-17T17:06:00.002-06:00

This week we will be exploring the Faithlink, "Faith and Finances". Here is an excerpt:

"How do the wonderful words of assurance [in the Bible] help us pay our bills, supply our pensions, and keep a roof over our heads? The painful realizties of our economy can sometimes challenge our faith."

Join us Sunday morning at 10am.

Book Club Schedule Update

2008-10-12T20:19:00.002-06:00

We had a great time discussing The Shack this fall. We are planning to start our next book:

Life of the Beloved: Spiritual Living in a Secular World by Henri J Nouwen

Someone mentioned that they saw a copy at Barnes & Noble, so there's a chance you can find it locally (and not just online).

We will probably be covering this book for the rest of October: October 19, 26, and possibly November 2.

We are taking every 2nd Sunday off for the church's special event night. The next book will most likely begin Nov. 16:
Reading the Bible Again for the First Time by Marcus J. Borg

I will update the schedule if it changes.

World Communion Sunday

2008-10-05T18:30:00.004-06:00

Since we didn't know that we were being visited by the State Department, I had written up a discussion sheet on World Communion Sunday. We can hopefully discuss this next week.

Division and Unity
World Communion Sunday “has taken on new relevancy and depth of meaning in a world where globalization often has undermined peace and justice––and in a time when fear divides the people of God’s earth,” according to a statement from the Raleigh Mennonite Church in Raleigh, North Carolina. “On this day we celebrate our oneness in Christ, the Prince of Peace, in the midst of the world we are called to serve––a world ever more in need of peacemaking.”

How is our world divided? What brings it together? When was the last time you felt that the world was uniting?
What causes divisions amongst today’s Christians? What brings Christians together?
How is the Methodist church divided? How is our own congregation divided? What causes the worst divisions? What unites our Church?
Are divisions sometimes good? What would total unity be like?
History of World Communion Sunday
The National Council of Churches, sanctioned World-wide Communion Sunday in 1940. That celebration began years earlier as a Presbyterian observance. The Methodist Church, inspired by a desire to respond to the devastation of World War II and to heal the resulting divisions, began to collect a special offering on that Sunday. The offering was for the Fellowship of Suffering and Service, which aided the Methodist Committee on Overseas Relief (now the United Methodist Committee on Relief), the Commission on Chaplains, and the Commission on Camp Activities.

The Body of Christ
The metaphor that Paul uses to describe the functioning of the church is that of a body where each part is different but serves a greater role as part of a whole.
1 Corinthians 12: 4 - 28
Body parts work differently but towards a unified goal. What does it mean for Christ to be the head? What does it mean for the Church to be the “bride?”

Uniting with Christ
For some people, the bread and blood are a way to unite with Christ. To literally take Him inside of our bodies in a process that cleanses us and makes us holy. More than anything, communion has the power to remind us that God is inside of us. Communion is a chance to slow down and reflect on ourselves and our relationship with God. It reminds us that we are intimately loved by God. For many people, communion literally provides an internal sense of peace and well-being they can’t get any other way. It is literally spiritual refueling.

Aren’t you, like me hoping that some person, thing or event will come along to give you that final feeling of inner well-being you desire? Don’t you often hope: “May this book, idea, course, trip, job, country or relationship fulfill my deepest desire.” But as long as you are waiting for that mysterious moment you will go on running helter skelter, always anxious and restless, always lustful and angry, never fully satisfied. You know that this is the compulsiveness that keeps us going and busy, but at the same time makes us wonder if we are getting anywhere in the long run. This is the way to spiritual exhaustion and burn out. This is the way to spiritual death…
Listening to [God’s] voice with great inner attentiveness, I hear at my center words that say: “I have called you by name, from the very beginning. You are mine and I am yours. You are my Beloved, on you my favor rests. I have molded you in the depths of the earth and knitted you together in your mother’s womb. I have carved you in the palms of my hands and hidden you in the shadow of my embrace. I look at you with infinite tenderness and care for you with a care more intimate that that of a mother for a child. I have counted every hair on your head and guided you at every step. Wherever you go I go with you, and wherever you rest I keep watch. I will give you food that will satisfy all your hunger and drink that will satisfy all your thirst.”
Henri J. M. Nouwen from Life of the Beloved

What did Christ himself say about unity?:
“I ask not only on behalf of these, but also on behalf of those who
will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one. As you,
Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world
may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have
given them, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you
in me, that they may become completely one, so that the world may know
that you have sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me”
(John 17:20-23).

What did Paul say about Unity?
“The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a sharing in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a sharing in the body of Christ? Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread” (1 Corinthians 10:16-17).

What does the United Methodist Church say about unity?
“As a church facing a new millennium we continue to disagree, sometimes bitterly,” according to the resolution “Being the Church Amid Disagreement,” adopted by the 2000 General Conference. “Important biblical, theological and scientific questions remain in dispute among persons of good will. This has been true on many issues throughout the history of our denomination.” Yet even with division, The United Methodist Church proclaims, “We recognize that God made all creation and saw that it was good. As a diverse people of God who bring special gifts and evidences of God’s grace to the unity of the church and to society, we are called to be faithful to the example of Jesus’ ministry to all persons.” “Being the Church Amid Disagreement” affirms that “we do not always agree. But if we heed this call to value all of God’s creation, we show our world how to disagree in remarkable and loving ways.”

What choices do we have as a society between unity and sharing vs. conflict and individuality?

Choice regarding war.
Choice regarding $700B bailout bill?

Visit from the State Department

2008-10-05T18:17:00.003-06:00

We had a great surprise this morning for the Contemporary Issues Sunday School class. We were joined by someone who works with the State Department in Georgia. I actually don't think I caught her name, but I can tell you that we did really benefit from our time with her. She shared about the crisis and her experience having to evacuate. She explained that many of the Russian soldiers have been cruel and that the unfortunate evil which always accompanies war has been visited on the small farming villages surrounding the city of Tbilisi where she and her husband live. I thought that this Sunday, World Communion Sunday, was an appropriate time to hear about the suffering that faces our Christian brothers and sisters who live literally on the other side of the world. Issues don't get much more contemporary than this. From my perspective, this is what the class is all about. She certainly needs our prayers as she and her family head back in two weeks time.

Would God Bake You a Scone?

2008-10-05T17:43:00.005-06:00

Some critics have emphatically rejected the image of God in the Shack, saying the idea that God would bustle around a kitchen preparing us scones is ridiculous. They say God has better things to do than bake and that the author of the Shack is reducing Almighty God into a simple, everyday image that we can feel comfortable with. These critics may be right. Perhaps God is a angry God and perhaps he would just as well smite us as whip up some mashed potatoes.

I do find it interesting however that although God may have better things to do than prepare breakfast, that is exactly what Jesus did for His disciples. In fact, the paradox of the Christian faith is that He did humble Himself, becoming human so that he could redeem every aspect of our human experience. He came and washed our feet. He saved parties by turning water into wine. We are consistently given the image of Jesus breaking bread with his friends.

The Gospel of John gives us one final image of Jesus. It is the image of Jesus preparing and sharing breakfast with His disciples. With some of His last hours to be physically on Earth in human form, he spent His time roasting fish for His friends and imparting truth while he did it. What did He say? "Feed my Sheep" He wasn't talking about sheep. This is, after all, the same God who turned a meal into a sacrament.

Although this may not come as a surprise to any of you, food is important to me. I think there are two "love feasts" in a church. One is the sacrament of communion, but the other is the potluck where everyone joins together and shares food and fellowship. In my book, they are both equally important. It seems to me that if we were to transport people from the early church to our present time, they would recognize the second, but perhaps not the first. Food is love. Why wouldn't God bake?

In Response to the Shack Critics

2008-10-04T13:13:00.002-06:00

Who say, "To the Bible you must turn, and to the Bible only!" (see previous post with anti-Shack sentiments), I went to the Bible, and interestingly, it is possible to find a compassionate God the Father, even in the Old Testament, feeling and sounding a lot like Papa in The Shack:

Taken from Hosea 11:1-9 (only parts included):

"I led them with cords of human kindness,
with bands of love.
I was to them like those
who lift infants to their cheeks.
I bent down to them and fed them."
...
"My heart recoils within me;
my compassion grows warm and tender.
I will not execute my fierce anger;
I will not again destroy Ephraim;
for I am God and no mortal,
the Holy One in your midst,
and I will not come in wrath.
"

Simple Quote

2008-10-02T21:43:00.003-06:00

This quote from a daily email I receive from beliefnet.com has kind of stuck with me since I first received it over a month ago. It was included in the Daily Buddhist Wisdom email, and after reading the Shack, and looking back through the emails I've kept, it is a very simple statement that captures part of the essence of what I got out of the experience and perspective of God presented in the Shack (and also the same essence that you might find in some of the psalms, or when you feel the presence of Jesus speaking to you through the Gospel):

"We walk on frosted ground praising chrysanthemums bordering fields; sit on the edge of the woods waiting for the moon to rise. Not having to be alone is happiness; we do not talk of failure or success."

-Chia Tao, "When I Find You Again, It Will Be In Mountains"

Book Club: The Shack - Week 2 Discussion

2008-09-30T22:21:00.003-06:00

The book club met for the second time on "The Shack" by William P. Young.

Here's a promotional image from the book's website - it's linked to the website, if you want to check it out. There's information about the Missy Project, along with other info on the book.

As always, our meeting started off with a great pot-luck dinner spread:
- Yogurt/fruit salad
- Tortilla chips and homemade guacamole
- Seasoned Quinoa with garbanzo beans
- Potato/corn chowder
- Green beans
- cottage cheese and fruit
- fresh-made whole wheat banana bread

(Food is always on my mind - so it comes first)

The discussion on this book has been quite rich - as David remarked, we have had some of the best discussions in the history of our book club. This book raises all kinds of questions and provides a lot of rich and meaningful imagery focusing on the "persons" of the Trinity.

NOTE: We have decided to take another week to conclude the discussion of this book. So, a revised schedule for the next two weeks would be:

10/5: The Shack
10/12: Life of the Beloved

One of the items we want to discuss next week revolves around the negative reviews the book is receiving (not the majority of reviews, mind you). We have been wondering what the particular theological issues are that people think are incorrectly presented. I did a quick look at the 1-star ratings on Amazon, and here are some excerpts:

"Throughout the book there is this kind of subversive strain teaching that new and fresh revelation is much more relevant and important than the kind of knowledge we gain in sermons or seminaries or Scripture. "

"You want to recreate God in your own image;

You find Isaiah's portrayal of a holy God seated upon His throne to be a disturbing image;

You would prefer to metaphorically cast God the Father as a loving and large black woman named "Papa," Jesus as a laid back and friendly Middle Eastern man, and the Holy Spirit as a calm and cool Asian woman;

You want a God so small that you and she/he/she can just hang out together as best buddies;

You regard the Bible as an extremely biased, narrow-minded, and insufficient revelation of God in leather binding with "guilt edges" (page 65);

You therefore believe that God talks to people today, and that whatever she or he says to people trumps biblical truth (page 66);

You believe that God is never to be feared (page 90);

You believe that Jesus' miracles do not affirm Him as God, but prove only "that Jesus is truly human" (page 99);

You want a God who does not hold people accountable for, nor punishes sin (page 119);

You want a God who does not demand that you submit to him or her, but one who submits to YOU (page 145);

You want a God who accepts everyone -- "Buddhists...Muslims, bankers and bookies" -- as his or her children no matter what their beliefs or behavior, and that Jesus has "no desire to make them Christian" (page 223);

You believe that Jesus lied when He warned, "Broad is the road that leads to destruction" (Matthew 7:13), because in The Shack Jesus says, "Most roads don't lead anywhere" (page 182).

Make no mistake... 90% of this book is spot on. But isn't that exactly what makes its 10% error so insidiously deadly? Look, we can allegorize many things, but we don't mess with the Trinity. This book is a Trojan horse subtly infiltrating the Christian community -- one that makes our God extremely small and completely manageable, a God who, in the final analysis, is no God at all. "

"Unfortunately, the image The Shack portrays of God is a weak one (a baker?). When Jesus came to earth, He did not reveal Himself through baking pies and scones but by performing miraculous healings, raising people from the dead, and by authoritatively teaching about heavy doctrinal issues. In conclusion, The Shack in many aspects does not line up with Scripture. Therefore, many of its conclusions about God end up being contrary to Scripture at best, and at worst, may be blasphemous. Therefore, The Shack would not be on my recommending reading list as it creates more problems than it does solutions by painting an unbiblical picture of God.

God does work in different ways in different people, however, it then does not follow that every individual's idea, experiences, and thoughts about God are correct. Scripture exhorts us to examine and test everything by the Word of God (1 Thess. 5:21; 1 Jn. 4:1). This would include such material as The Shack. Therefore, if one does decides to read this book, it is crucial that they use discernment and judge it by the truth of Scripture.

It is sad that for Mack, in finding his peace and comfort, he does not find it through the Word of God, nor even prayer, but in an experience. And an experience that does not appear to built upon the solid rock of God's Word. "

"God says "If you love me you will keep my commandments" the book says, if you try to keep commandments you are rejecting me.

God says you will be blessed if you walk in His ways, the book says you are declaring your independance from God if you try to follow any rules.

God says to repent of your evil ways, the book claims that there are no rules...therefore my question would be, why would we need to repent?
"

"The theological content, primarily consisting of lectures forced into the mouths of two-dimensional characters, is clearly derivative of the late 20th century. It's light and sensitive, but ungrounded and unbiblical. God is largely impotent and tends to feel bad with Mack, but the real issue of theodicy is fundamentally dismissed either with patronizing head-patting or pseudo-intellectual banter. The idea that God the father walks around with scars on his/her wrists was a heresy called Patripassianism which was dismissed in the early centuries of the church. Generally, the book is theologically meandering.
"

"First, it seems that this Papa version of God is not sovereign. The author often suggests that true love won't control the response to love (so this version of god sure isn't the God of Calvin and Augustine... no election here). But even if you don't agree with the doctrine of election, sovereignty sure is at stake in this book. On page 185, Papa says: "... just because I work incredible good out of unspeakable tragedies doesn't mean I orchestrate the tragedies. Don't ever assume that my using something means I caused it or that I need it to accomplish my purposes. That will only lead to false notions about me." Well, based on their writings, I guess Peter, Paul and John all had false notions about God. I'll just quote Peter from Acts 2: 23 "... you followed God's prearranged plan. With the help of lawless gentiles, you nailed [Jesus] to the cross and murdered him." Did God not orchestrate this apparent tragedy? And how about when the Lord told Satan about Job: "Do whatever you want with everything he possesses..." (Job 1:12) and thereafter Job loses all of his children, his farmhands, his livelihood. Note that for the rest of the book of Job, God is credited (or blamed) with "orchestrating" these tragedies.
"

"Theologically, the book obliquely teaches referrant worship (p. 31), universalism (p. 224-225), and full blown Pelagianism (p. 225). It denies that Jesus was sent by the Father to die for our sins (p. 31); it denies that our lifes are lived in priority-subjection to the first commandment (p. 206-207). It even denies that, for Christians, our sins are cast "as far as the east is from the west", and that God will "remember our sins no more" (p.224.)
"

"Some examples from the book that are horrendous, and there are many more:
pages 31 where God is the same as the Great Spirit of the Indian folktale. hmm.... pages 65, 66 where the author dogs on Scripture being enough even though God boasts that His Word is living and active Hebrews 4:12, 1 Timothy 3:16, 2 Peter 1:21, etc.)
Pages 88, 89 and many others that refer to God the Father and
God the Spirit as female pronouns. Interesting that God reveals Himself in the masculine pronoun throughout His Word, harmless? Maybe not according to The Lord of Glory.
Finally: Page 120 God speaking, "I don't need to punish people for sin. Sin is it's own punishment, devouring you from the inside" Silly Jesus, why did He suffer and die on the cross when sin is not really that big of a deal, and hell is not really that horrible! Come on!"

Social Creed

2008-09-22T23:01:00.002-06:00

Next week we will examine the Methodist Social Creed which I hope will build on the discussion from last week and bring things down to various practical issues which can be discussed. I have asked Connie to print out the Faithlink and place it in the class room for next week in case Heather and I are not there. Also, if Craig wants to continue with the lesson from before, that can blend easily into the Social Creed lesson.

What is a United Methodist?

2008-09-22T22:36:00.004-06:00

Last week in Sunday School we talked about what it means to be a United Methodist and how this denomination is unique from others such as the Catholic church, the Presbyterians, Baptists and even Mormons. We discussed the notion that many of us find the open mindedness of the methodist church appealing, but also considered what the boundaries are to the freedom granted within the methodist theology and world view. On most things Methodists agree with other protestant churches as well as with Catholics. In fact, the biggest differences may be found in the practice of faith or the "method" rather than in doctrine. Some distinct doctrinal issues are identifiable such as the Methodist focus on universalism which is often contrasted with the calvinist doctrine of predestination. Unlike calvinists who believe that only some are elect or chosen by God, Methodists focus on the availability of God's love to all people. Of course, Calvinists would say that God's love is available to all, but that God has preordained that only some will accept it. We generally agreed that this is confusing and perhaps even counterproductive way to think about God's grace. Perhaps the difference is that Calvinism tries to look at it from God's perspective (which is of course very confusing to humans), whereas Methodism tries to look at it from a human perspective. We also discussed the Methodist believe in prevenient grace which means simply that God reaches out to us in love through his creation and through his revelation into our hearts. Another Methodist notion that we discussed was the so called Wesylan quadrilateral which provides four means to evaluate truth:
Scripture - the Holy Bible (Old and New Testaments)
Tradition - the two millennia history of the Christian Church
Reason - rational thinking and sensible interpretation
Experience - a Christian's personal and communal journey in Christ .

Put simply, if someone makes a controversial claim that goes starkly against any one of these, it's probably not God's truth. We also discussed controversial beliefs in methodism such as homosexuality and reflected on the fact that Methodists can agree to disagree even on important issues.

Sunday School Class Recap: 9/14

2008-09-14T22:34:00.003-06:00

We started off class today with the best of intentions - we had David's well-planned lesson in front of us, even Bibles on the table. As we introduced the topic of "Grandparent's Day" and started the discussion, we pretty quickly got to a debate surrounding whether or not the world is a more dangerous place now than in the past, whether the world should be called "dangerous" at all, and general discussion on over-protecting children and teaching them how to not distrust everyone they don't know.

Hopefully everyone was o.k. with the digression - it was, I think, a very healthy discussion.

And interestingly the local news headlines came right in line with our discussion topics - as it turns out (see the article on Local News 8), today is a statewide "Day of Awareness for Missing Persons", in memory of the disappearance of Amber Hoopes from her grandparents' home. In the same group of headlines, they featured a headline about a teenage boy reported missing, but ended up being fine.

One of the richest areas for discussion among Christians can be the topic of why bad things happen, and how we have faith and hope in a world where sin exists.

We didn't come up with any answers, but one of the most significant realizations for me is that while many might assume grandparents raising grandchildren may be even more protective than younger parents ("fear of the changing times"), it seemed almost like the reverse to be true in our experience (younger parents more overprotective) and that we can learn something from the essential trust of people more prevalent among the older generations.

Next Week: What is a United Methodist?

I had said in class that David and I wouldn't be there, but now I think we will be. We look forward to Craig's leadership next week.

Daily Christian Wisdom

2008-09-12T07:19:00.000-06:00

God does not work by only one method, paint in only one color, play in only one key, nor does He make only one star shine onto the earth.

-Eberhard Arnold

Celebration of the Life of Harrell Guard

2008-09-10T17:46:00.002-06:00

Harrell Guard
January 5, 1934 - September 4, 2008

Harrell was a member of our church who passed away last week. He was involved in so many things at our church, and touched our lives in the discussion groups through his participation. He had an incredible depth of knowledge and wisdom.

The following was written by Harrell, and I've been asked to share it here.

"The world has led us to believe that
our well being is dependent on
people loving us.

But this is the kind of
upside down thinking
that has caused so many problems.

The truth is
that our well being is dependent on
our giving love.

It is not about what comes back;
it is about what goes out."

Sunday School: Grandparents Day

2008-09-09T07:15:00.002-06:00

To kick off the thread on our first Sunday School article, I ran across this article on CNN today: Grandparents take on parenthood, again.

I was thinking back to my days when I stayed at home, and I was thinking about how grandparents probably don't feel terribly comfortable participating in support groups like mom's groups, or comfortable even asking for help. They are in an awkward position, to be sure - was there any data in the Faithlink article as to the median income of folks in this position?

I also was thinking about the millions of grandparents this article doesn't mention - those that are essentially raising their grandchildren even though the grandchildren may not sleep over night at their houses. Does it make you wonder what's going to happen to the children of this next generation, those whose parents couldn't or wouldn't raise them, when they start having children?

Book Club Fall Schedule

2008-09-07T21:04:00.002-06:00

The St. Paul's book club will continue to meet at our house on Sunday evenings, 6:30-8:00 (or 8:30). The only exception to that rule is the 2nd Sunday of each month, when there is a special evening performance at the church. Dinner is pot luck, although you don't need to feel the need to bring something if you don't feel like it. I wanted to take a picture of the spread we had tonight, as an advertisement, but I forgot. We serve a variety of food needs, so don't be shy to mention if you have special requests.

We have six books selected at this time. The following schedule is subject to change, with more specific dates provided for the first two months only. Each book title is linked to the amazon.com website to ensure we have consistency on editions. You can purchase the book anywhere you like, of course.

September 20 & 27
The Shack by William P. Young

October 5, 19 & 26
Life of the Beloved: Spiritual Living in a Secular World by Henri J Nouwen

Depending on our schedules around the holidays, the following books will either be completed before or after the holidays:

3. Reading the Bible Again for the First Time by Marcus J. Borg

4. Living Buddha, Living Christ by Thich Nhat Hanh

5. When Jesus Came to Harvard: Making Moral Choices Today by Harvey Cox

6. When the Rivers Run Dry by Fred Pearce

To read a little bit about past books we have studied, check out the following links to my personal blog. Folks in my family often ask about what we are reading (they are all back East), so for those that I especially enjoyed, I usually post a blurb.

Three Cups of Tea, by Greg Mortenson - June 2008

Enrique's Journey, by Sonia Nazario - May 2008

Muhammad, A Prophet for Our Time by Karen Armstrong - January 2008 (This also includes a short history of the book club group)

Lanuage of God, by Francis Collins and Life of Pi, by Yann Martel - March 2007 (We ended up reading Life of Pi, summer of 2007)

Adult Sunday School: Contemporary Issues - Intro and First lesson

2008-09-07T15:51:00.005-06:00

One of the Adult Sunday School offerings that has had a loyal following since David and I started attending the church 8 years ago is the Contemporary issues class. This class is structured around the Faithlink study guides offered through Cokesbury. The link can be used to peruse a summary of the Faithlink guides, listed with the most recently released first.

This adult Sunday school class is group-directed, in that anyone can offer to lead a lesson of their choosing. We welcome anyone interested in how the Christian faith, and Methodism in particular, can lead to further understanding of difficult issues facing us today.

WEEKS 1&2 (9/7 and 9/14): Grandparents Day
Today is Grandparents Day. What is the role of grandparents in our culture? What value do we place on older persons? How can Christians celebrate grandparents and older persons in our lives?

David wanted to share this Monty Python episode -- just for laughs.

I will send out the PDF file containing the lessons to the email addresses I have gathered. If you are interested in receiving these lessons, post a comment here -- do not include your email address in your comment. I will contact you separately.

Upcoming Lesson (9/21 and 9/28): What is a United Methodist?All Christians share belief in God's saving grace through Jesus Christ. What makes us distinctively United Methodist Christians? How can these distinctive characteristics propel us into the future?